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 Post subject: New Zealands flag
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:52 am 
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Despite the fact that recent referendums and polls show that 80% and more of us want to keep the flag as it is John Keys is trying once again to change it . The guy really does want to be a dictator . I don't want it changed and will be hanging three NZ flags at my gate instead of my usual business ones .
Please , anyone else who feels the same , do the same . You can buy flags for $8 at the dollar shop at Whakatane . I don't know about other towns .

Our flag denotes our real history right from the days of King David of Israel , our heroes of world wars and others . Some of the Maori Chiefs who signed to the treaty knew this and wanted to belong to it . Taking it away is an insult to all these people who have fought and died and struggled to maintain the standards the flag represents and shows up the immoral character of those who want to change it .


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 Post subject: Re: New Zealands flag
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:54 am 
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The brainwashing for flag change has started at our expense . $80 million dollars is being spent on an unnecessary change to our folding money making changes without the peoples consent . It is obvious to me that this is a brain game being played by Govt , in order to prepare for a flag change as well .
Most people will be to apathetic to object and this is what the govt is hoping for .


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 Post subject: Re: New Zealands flag
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:02 pm 
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Isaac Davison Isaac Davison is a NZ Herald political reporter.
NZ First pulls out of flag committee

6:36 PM Monday Nov 17, 2014
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Flag Debate NZ First party Politics
File photo / NZ Herald
File photo / NZ Herald
New Zealand First has pulled out of a committee which will decide how the public votes on the national flag, saying it was an expensive exercise which took attention away from greater priorities.

Leader Winston Peters said this afternoon the flag referendum will "cost us dearly" and take the public's eye off more pressing social and economic challenges.

"A change of flag might need to be considered but now is not the time. Poverty and housing are at crisis level, it's no time for a government to be raising a distraction," Mr Peters said.

His party had rejected the Government's invitation to nominate an MP for a cross-party committee.

Prime Minister John Key said New Zealand First's absence from the committee would not "inhibit the process in any way".

He confirmed the other members of the committee today. They were Act Party leader David Seymour, Green MP Kennedy Graham, Labour MP Trevor Mallard, Maori Party co-leader Marama Fox, National MP Jonathan Young and United Future leader Peter Dunne.


Mr Peters said the process of changing a national emblem needed to follow an "impeccable" process, but National had instead included political parties with very little support in the decision-making process, such as Act and United Future.

The committee will be chaired by deputy Prime Minister Bill English at its first meeting next week, but it will later elect its own chairperson.

Its first task will be to nominate New Zealanders for a Flag Consideration Panel, which will be in charge of seeking design submissions from the public.

The committee will also have to review draft legislation which will allow two referendums to go ahead.

The first referendum in late 2015 will ask New Zealanders to vote on a range of alternative flags chosen by the Flag Consideration Panel.

A second referendum in April 2016 will be a run-off between the most popular alternative flag and the current national flag.

The process is expected to cost $27 million, not including other potential costs such as altering military uniforms and public buildings which carry the flag.

- NZ Herald


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 Post subject: Re: New Zealands flag
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:09 pm 
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United Tribes flag
United Tribes flag
United Tribes flag
The idea of a flag to represent New Zealand was first broached in 1830, when the Hokianga-built trading ship Sir George Murray was seized in Sydney by Customs officials for sailing without a flag or register. Australia, New Zealand's major trading market, was subject to British navigation laws which ruled that every ship must carry an official certificate detailing construction, ownership and nationality of the ship. At that time, New Zealand was not yet a British colony and New Zealand-built ships could not sail under a British flag or register. Without a flag to represent the new nation, trading ships and their valuable cargoes were liable to be seized.

Busby takes up the cause
James Busby

James Busby
Upon arriving in the Bay of Islands in 1833 to take up the position of British Resident, James Busby almost immediately wrote to the Colonial Secretary in New South Wales suggesting that a New Zealand flag be adopted.

Aside from solving the problems with trans-Tasman trade, Busby also saw the flag as a way of encouraging Maori chiefs to work together, paving the way for some form of collective government. The Australian authorities agreed wholeheartedly with his proposal for a flag, and some months later forwarded a possible design, consisting of a white background with four blue horizontal bands across it and the Union Jack in the top left-hand corner. This design was, however, deemed unsuitable by Busby as it contained no red, 'a colour to which the New Zealanders are particularly partial, and which they are accustomed to consider as indicative of rank'.

The senior missionary of the Church Missionary Society, Rev. Henry Williams, was enlisted to design an alternative flag, drawing on his experience as a lieutenant in the Royal Navy. The three flag designs he produced were then sent to Governor Bourke in New South Wales, who had the designs sewn up and forwarded to Busby by way of HMS Alligator.

Maori chiefs choose a flag
On 20 March 1834, 25 chiefs from the Far North and their followers gathered at Waitangi to choose a flag to represent New Zealand. A number of missionaries, settlers and the commanders of 10 British and 3 American ships were also in attendance at the occasion.

Maori beneath United Tribes flag
Maori beneath United Tribes flag
Following Busby's address, each chief was called forward in turn to select a flag, while the son of one of the chiefs recorded the votes. The preferred design, a flag already used by the Church Missionary Society, received 12 out of the 25 votes, with the other two designs receiving 10 and 3 votes respectively. Busby declared the chosen flag the national flag of New Zealand and had it hoisted on a central flagpole, accompanied by a 21 gun salute from HMS Alligator.

The new flag was then sent back to New South Wales for passage to King William IV. The King approved the flag, and a drawing of it was circulated through the Admiralty with instructions to recognise it as New Zealand's flag. It came to be known as the Flag of the United Tribes of New Zealand in recognition of the title used by the same chiefs when they met again.

South African War medal
United Tribes flag on Sth African War medal
Busby's hope that the flag would provide a means for encouraging Maori to act collectively was partially fulfilled when many of the chiefs involved went on to sign the Declaration of Independence in 1835. To Maori, the United Tribes flag was significant in that Britain had recognised New Zealand as an independent nation with its own flag, and in doing so, had acknowledged the mana of the Maori chiefs. As only northern chiefs were involved in choosing the flag, it became particularly significant to northern Maori.

By way of oral history and tradition, the flag remains important to successive generations of northern Maori today. The flag could be sighted flying in various locations around the Bay of Islands, as well as on ships plying their trade to Sydney. Ships calling at other ports in New Zealand led to the flag's use in other parts of the country as well.


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 Post subject: Re: New Zealands flag
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:13 pm 
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The NZ flag
Maritime origins
The roots of New Zealand's present flag lie in the Imperial Colonial Naval Defence Act of 1865, which ruled that all ships owned by a colonial government must fly the Blue Ensign with the badge of the colony on it. New Zealand at that time did not have an official badge or emblem, and as such flew the Blue Ensign without a distinguishing badge. In 1866, the Government steamers St. Kilda and Sturt were reprimanded by visiting British ships for flying the Blue Ensign without the colony's badge. This embarrassment prompted the government to devise an emblem for placement on the flag, in compliance with the Act.

Early flag
Initial ideas for the design of New Zealand's emblem included the seal of New Zealand and the words 'New Zealand', however both were found to be too difficult to work into the design of the Blue Ensign. The four stars of the Southern Cross were also proposed, but were rejected as not being exclusively representative of New Zealand. In 1867, the colonial government settled on the abbreviation NZ in red lettering with a white border to represent New Zealand on the Blue Ensign. This emblem was shortlived and in 1869, was replaced by the earlier suggestion of the Southern Cross, comprised of four red stars with white borders.

The signalling flag
Signal flag
Officially the flag with the Southern Cross was for maritime purposes only but it gradually came to be used on land, even though the Union Jack remained the legal flag of New Zealand. Further confusion was caused by the introduction of a new International Code of Signals, which instituted a new signalling flag in 1899. The signalling flag was identical to the Southern Cross flag, except for the addition of a white disc surrounding the red stars.

It too was for use at sea or in foreign ports; however, its use spread on shore to public buildings and commercial advertising, causing much consternation in the House of Representatives. During debates in Parliament it was harshly described as being 'mutilated' or 'an abortion' or more curiously, as 'a Hennessy's brandy capsule'. With the outbreak of the South African War in 1899 and its associated patriotism and flag-waving, the confusion surrounding the correct flag was an embarrassment to Premier Richard Seddon.

Making the flag official
New Zealand Flag
Seddon's response was to introduce the New Zealand Ensign and Code Signals Bill in 1900 to make the Blue Ensign with the stars of the Southern Cross the legal flag of New Zealand. The Bill received general acclaim in the House, but met with opposition when it reached Sir Robert Stout, who was acting as Governor in the absence of the Earl of Ranfurly. Stout disapproved of the Bill as he felt the clause reserving the Act for Her Majesty's approval trampled on the Governor's right to decide an appropriate course of action. Seddon disagreed, and refused to alter the offending clause, as he considered a constitutional principle to be at stake. In the end, the wrangling all came to nothing as the Admiralty had concerns entirely unrelated to the mechanism by which the Bill was set aside for Her Majesty's assent.

New Zealand flag from Quinns Post
New Zealand flag from Gallipoli
The Admiralty objected to the proposed use of the Blue Ensign 'for all purposes', as set out in the preamble of the Act. In the United Kingdom, the privilege of flying the Blue Ensign was reserved for Government ships, and other distinguished vessels. It was feared that this distinction would be watered down should the New Zealand Bill be approved, as all New Zealand-registered merchant ships would be automatically granted the right to fly the Blue Ensign under its provisions. The New Zealand Government therefore agreed to specifically limit the use of the Blue Ensign at sea to those 'vessels owned and used by the New Zealand Government', or where a warrant to fly the Ensign had been obtained from the Admiralty.

Australian flag
The Australian flag - a New Zealand design?
The Bill was replaced by another modified New Zealand Ensign Act, which was passed by the House on 5 November 1901, after debate as to whether the Southern Cross ought to include five stars as the Victorian flag did. His Majesty The King approved the Act on 24 March 1902 and His Excellency the Governor's proclamation to this effect was published in the New Zealand Gazette on 12 June 1902. A description of the flag followed on 27 June 1902, detailing alterations to the size and position of the stars. The Act was replaced by various Shipping and Seamen's Acts, including those of 1903 and 1908, but the provisions concerning the New Zealand flag remained effectively unchanged until the Flags, Emblems and Names Protection Act 1981 came into force.


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 Post subject: Re: New Zealands flag
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:46 am 
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Is the site " stand for " set up by the govt, to push the flag change merely a third world white wash type referendum which we pay for to help them force the change .
I put my comment against the flag change on there but it was rejected . Later I complained and a few days later was asked what was the comment so I told them and am still waiting for a reply six days later .
It seems that they won't allow any comments against the flag change or edit what they want on there .
We need more protests and may this bring down our facist government .


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 Post subject: Re: New Zealands flag
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:28 pm 
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A meeting was held in Opotiki this morning for those who are against the flag change to express there views . Another meeti\ng will be held at the diner in Bridge st , Opotiki next friday to show solidarity and organise a Hikoi for the following week .


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